BF3 Flag Placement

[swfwebmaster]

On behalf of pershainovitsh
8 OCT 2011

I think this is the best place to ask about opinions on the BF3 maps. What do you think about Caspian Border? Are the flags scattered? And what do you think about the newly revealed map, Operation Firestorm?

Here's a thread on the EA UK forum complaining about its flag placement. forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3/1437309-operation-firestorm-huge-map-flags-clustered-together-not-good.html

You should also check the commentary video on Youtube where you can see all the flags from a jet.


The flags look like they are so close to each other you could almost throw a grenade from one flag to another. The map seems to be just a CoD map, but with lots of empty space around the playable area. Come on, that map could have been like Highway Tampa in terms of flag placement: ONE flag where all the maps are right now, one on the other side of mountain, one a kilometre or two away (which would be accessible by using the road) from the first flag, one on the other side of the map and so on.

This is supposed to be the sequel to BF2, not to BF:BC2. Well, at least it isn't the "3 maps in a straight line" again, but that doesn't help much.
Someone on the EAUK forums said the entire playable area would fit in Dragon Valley's Chinese Headquarters. So even the smallest 16 player map size of BF2 has three times the playable area BF3 has.

It's obvious the maps were designed for 24 players on consoles, and then just added a bit more space for the 64 players on PC. I don't think that can work at all. 32 vs 32 on a map like that? I can already imagine the entire round being exactly like Strike at Karkand's first flag. Just grenade spam, chaos, no time to breathe.

[swfwebmaster]

Here are a number of posts I made in the EA UK Forum related to this topic and consolidated:

Basically, DICE got lazy and did not make proper versions of the maps for PC 64 players (not surprised). DICE just widened the aperture of the map with the same flag placement, so the maps are bigger by adding unplayable space.

Why the h-e-l-l would PCs have the same flag placement?

In BF2, there were three variations for almost every map:

- 16 player
- 32 player
- 64 player

There were fewer flags for the 16 player map and the placement was different as compared to the 32 and the 64 player maps.

Obviously, there is a huge difference with a server hosting 64 players than with 24 and the flags should be more plentiful and in different locations; in this case farther apart. Here is the BF2 measuring stick on how to make maps (16 player maps are on the left and 64 player map on the right):



For some of the maps in BFBC2, going from 24 players (console) to 32 (PC) made the map too crowded. Most of the maps in BFBC2 are comfortable for about 20 players.

If DICE uses the same BFBC2 console to PC formula for BF3 maps, it will be extremely unpleasant to try and squeeze 64 players in the playable portion of the map.

This could mean that regardless of the spawning system used for BF3, we may end up returning to the spastic gameplay of Bad Company 2.

Battlefield is about TEAMPLAY and space between control points (flags) is needed to coordinate squad efforts.

If DICE declares to the world, the maps are HUGE. They are the biggest maps we have ever had in a Battlefield product.

Is it still okay that the maps really are NOT the biggest?

Should DICE be allowed to lie unchallenged?

Should a Used Car Salesman be able to mislead you to buying a car that he knows he is misrepresenting?

VaderShake from the EA UK Forum

The only thing I will say about the map size topic is if DICE would not have said "BF3 will have the largest maps yet in BF game" this thread would not exists. DICE set a president with maps like Zatar, El Alamein, and several other large maps, and the mod communities have surpassed those, that really raises the expectation on the "BF3 will have the largest maps yet, yada, yada," then we see Caspain Border and Paris, and have yet to see the next level of evolution in "large maps" let alone a larger population than 64 player.

Now I know we have not seen the rest of the game, that's fine and I am sure those who want and expect large maps might be pacified with some other maps, but so far the "largest maps" statement has not been backed up and we are as of today 65 days from release date.

Now as a long time customer of DICE and BF games I can say DICE, while they have made some great bf games and some not so great, they have also had their struggles with backing up some things they have claimed (patch release dates, game launch dates, fixes, 1943 to pc, Laser Designator, and some others) so they are not perfect everyone and I don't expect them to be.

DICE could easily address these customer concerns about map size but they are choosing not to, so it's the customers right to question them about it until the customer recieves the clarity they need about the BF3 product.There is really no reason to argue about it.

DICE's new map design philosophy

Posted by xnorb from the EA UK Forum


Does the diverse terrain and abundant vegetation essentially spread the flags out?

The majority of game modes and designed maps will cater to the console COD types. Very few maps will throw a bone to the Battlefield minority.

Nine plus four maps for a total of thirteen.

How many will be medium-sized tightly-packed-flag (Caspian Border) type maps?

How many will be narrow corridor (Operation Metro) maps? Answer - Too many!!!!!!

How many Dragon Valley/Highway Tampa type maps? Answer - One, if we're lucky.

How many of the HUGE maps (larger than Highway Tampa) promised by DICE? Answer - Extremely, unlikely. A confident prediction of "ZERO."

Playable Size is what counts.

That is for all player types infantry, vehicles, and aircraft. If it excludes any of those groups then it is not playable area. The "HUGE"/"largest maps ever" claim by DICE looks like a big fat lie. Scenary does not count toward map size.

Why not put all the small linear rush maps on one big overall map with lots of space in between playing areas and call that the biggest Battlefield map ever?

gudman EA UK Forum

Step out from one capzone - get into another. No way you escape capzones!

TheBusDriv3r EA UK Forum

People did say the noobs don't go for flags enough, there's your solution.

Delicieuxz EA UK Forum

Lol, yes, making the flags come to them.

There you have it. You never leave a flag cap zone.

Truly innovative, DICE. [sarcasm]

5 flags in a tight cluster in the center of BF3 maps negatively attacks TEAMPLAY:

- degraded intra-squad communication
- degraded inter-squad coordination
- time and space needed to cycle through think, speak, understand, acknowledge, and act process will be greatly deminished
- eight 4-man squads will get inter-mixed in the caldron
- all squad member spaz spawn system will create pandemonium
- request for air and other forms of support will get lost in the madness
- vehicle transport to another flag will become unnecessary

[wobblyone]

Yes, I agree with all of the above.
Now forgive me if I cause any offence. (where are the smileys)!
With BF3 we are going to get what we are given. (found em)
We can either accept this or look for an alternative. (Arma2 being the only for tactical gameplay)

I can only speak for myself when I say that I am going to commit myself TOTALLY to BF3.
I want to see that the =SWF= tag is both feared and respected in BF3.
The teamwork and talent within =SWF= is going to make this a positive!
We are going to have to adapt and f**king OWN this game.....!!!

[swfwebmaster]

wobbly,

This is good. I need to snap out of the negativity fog. I need to try and not beat down folk's enthusiasm for the game. You're Damn Right, wobbly. We need to get fired up and kick some a.s.s.

[Spartan0536]

Remember Spartans, I told you about Caspian Border and those who have played it now know, trust me when I tell you this that certain things will NOT be the same in Final as they are portrayed now, even IGN and DICE have said it in that commentary and in Twitter feeds. While that is 1 map of 9 we know that Caspian Border is a spacious one with good flag placement aside from the forest which is almost pointless in existence. We have seen only a few of the maps and none of them Finalized, remember we also have BACK TO KARKAND coming including Wake Island 2014, Gulf of Oman, and the legendary ground war Karkand itself returning in all their glory and then some, lots to look forward to and Battlefield 3 is sure to deliver.